Bonilla, DeSaulnier, Buchanan Vote to Indoctrinate California Students on Homosexuals, Bisexuals, Transexuals
Can’t Say Anything Bad About Lesbians, Gays, Bisexuals or Transgendered in the Classroom
By Allen Payton, Publisher
Governor Edmund G. “Jerry” Brown, Jr. signed into law a historic bill requiring the teaching of historical contributions by homosexuals, bisexuals and transexuals, who call themselves lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgendered (LGBT). But the law goes beyond that by forbidding textbooks from including anything derogatory about such people or their lifestyle choice.
Now not only will California school children be taught there’s nothing wrong with being homosexual, bisexual or transexual, but they can’t be taught anything negative about those who have chosen that lifestyle and the behavior that it includes.
Those representing Antioch in Sacramento voted for the bill, known as SB 48 (Senate Bill 48) authored by openly gay State Senator Mark Leno of San Francisco. Assemblywoman Susan Bonilla and State Senator Mark DeSaulnier, both Democrats from Concord, voted for the bill. Assemblywoman Joan Buchanan who represents the other parts of East County, as well as the San Ramon Valley and Tri Valley voted for it, at least twice: once in committee and once on the Assembly floor.
The bill passed on a party line vote with all Republicans voting against it in both the Assembly and Senate, and only Democrats voting for it.
Brown signed the legislation at a time 30% all students and 50% of African American students are dropping out of high school in California and in spite of the fact a majority of California voters disagree with promoting the homosexual/LGBT agenda, which was demonstrated by the passage of Proposition 8 banning homosexual marriage.
Following is the summary of the legislation provided by State Senate staff.
SUMMARY : Adds lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender (LGBT) Americans, persons with disabilities and others to the list of groups of people whose role and contributions shall be accurately portrayed in instructional materials and included in social science instruction, and adds sexual orientation and religion to the list of characteristics that shall not be reflected adversely in adopted instructional materials.
The full text of the bill, analysis, committee and floor votes can be seen by clicking here.
Those in support of the bill included the California Teachers Association and the American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees.
It is deemed a “Non-State-Mandated Local Program” so perhaps local school boards can refuse to use textbooks containing the new history lessons.
Add that to the legislation requiring Harvey Milk Day in the schools, honoring the first openly gay member of the San Francisco Board of Supervisors which Governor Schwarzenegger signed into law, last year.
Expect to see a swell in private and parochial school registration, this fall and a referendum to repeal the new law on the ballot, next year.
Way to keep that journalistic objectivity, Allan. This article sounded blatantly partisan and borderline homophobic to me. For example: “Now not only will California school children be taught there’s nothing wrong with being homosexual, bisexual or transexual…” [sic] — as if there IS something wrong with being homosexual, bisexual or transsexual? This is not up to the level of professionalism I have come to expect from the Antioch Herald.
Ms. McVicker,
Thank you for reading and commenting.
I admit that I editorialized some in my article, so it’s not completely objective from a journalistic standpoint. But what is stated are the facts.
As for it being partisan, the other articles I read about the matter also mentioned the party line vote, that all the votes against the bill were by Republicans, and that’s just a fact, as well.
While I’m not “homophobic” as I don’t fear homosexuals, nor do I hate them or anyone else, I do not agree with promoting their choice of lifestyles to our children or condoning their behavior through law.
It’s one thing to teach of the historical contributions of any Californian, but why must their sexuality be mentioned?
Do we teach our children, “George Washington was our nation’s first President, and he was a heterosexual?” Of course not.
But we do mention he was a slave owner which most Americans believe is a negative thing. yes. Yet, nothing negative can be said about the LGBT individual’s “role and contributions to the economic, political, and social development of California and the United States?”
So LGBT individuals only do good things and all their contributions to our society have been good, or at least that’s all that can be said about their “role and contributions?”
We’re supposed to be teaching our children HOW to think not WHAT to think in our education system and to THINK for themselves. What this legislation is about is indoctrination.
What if our legislature passed a bill that said the role and contributions of Nazis must be included in social science classes, but they “shall not be reflected adversely in adopted instructional materials?” They are a protected class from the standpoint they have the right to believe what they want. But, you’d be up in arms, as would most people (except a few Skinheads, I’m sure). How is this any different?
Why is someone’s personal sexual activity and choices a subject matter of a history or social science class, other than the fact that, for example, an openly LGBT individual was the first of their group to be elected to public office, such as Harvey Milk (which is pretty much his only contribution to our state’s or nation’s history, as he didn’t accomplish much of anything while in office) or they led a protest or started the Freedom Day Parade? Much less any class, other than health?
Yes there IS something wrong with being homosexual, bisexual and/or transsexual. Both from a moral and health standpoint.
But, now that can’t be discussed objectively in California classrooms. Yet, the new law says LGBT individuals “…shall be accurately portrayed in social science instruction and instructional materials adopted by local governing boards.” Well how can that be if the law also states “Adds sexual orientation and religion to the list of characteristics that shall not be reflected adversely in adopted instructional materials…?” How do you portray someone accurately if you can only say good things about them or what they’ve done?
Those who believe the Bible know that it states clearly that homosexuality is an abomination to God.
The majority of Californians oppose homosexual marriage. (I try not to use the term “gay” because they took what used to mean happy and twisted it. Besides I don’t believe they’re truly happy. But that’s a discussion for another time). Yet the Democrats in the legislature, including our representatives, and Gov. Brown want to force our students to accept their lifestyle – against the beliefs and desires of their parents, while using their tax dollars to do it.
So what happens if a student states what they believe – which is protected by the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution and is a God-given right, as are the rest of those enumerated in the Bill of Rights, and supersedes any state law – that homosexuality is a sin during a “history” lesson in the classroom? What’s the teacher supposed to say? What if the teacher believes the same? Will they be fired for speaking their mind? Will the student be put into “sensitivity” training? They better not.
It’s legal to be a smoker or an alcoholic, both lifestyle choices which we all know are detrimental. Plus drug addicts are protected under the Americans with Disabilities Act. Should we now promote the historical contributions of those who are smokers, alcoholics and drug addicts to our children and not say anything bad about their lifestyle choices?
Let’s run this out, for an example: “John Smith was a Californian and helped design the Golden Gate Bridge. He was a smoker, alcoholic and a drug abuser. Oh, and he was also very heterosexual with multiple female partners, including his wife. But that’s OK because those were his choices and they didn’t affect his work. So, kids, it’s OK to do all those things and make those lifestyle and behavior choices, as long as you make some kind of contribution to the ‘economic, political, and social development of California and the United States.'”
While perhaps I could have done less editorializing in my article, or marked it as an Editorial (or should it be a Publisherial? LOL), what I stated is both fact and my concerns with this legislation, based on the larger challenge I have with the continued efforts by the very small (3% of the population) LGBT community to force the rest of society to accept and condone their behavior and aberrant, unnatural, unhealthy sexual choices and now have its acceptance be required to be taught to our school children.
Plus I want the public to know how our representatives voted on the bill to hold them accountable to their actions, which is one of the reasons I started this news site and my paper – informing the public and holding our elected representatives accountable.
Allen Payton
Publisher
This bill says nothing about promoting the LGBT lifestyle. It will simply add the teaching of the contributions of historical LGBT people (yes LGBT people DO contribute positively to society whether you choose to believe it or not).
We do in fact teach that George Washington was heterosexual, or did you miss the class where we learned about his WIFE Martha? We also teach about the many positive contributions of people of different races, religions etc. And their races and religions are mentioned in the teaching of them.
This legislation does not mean that we can only look at the ‘good’ things that LGBT people have done, just like George Washington and his slaves the full accurate life story will be taught I have no doubt.
HOWEVER, this legislation WILL prevent people from teaching that LGBT people have something ‘wrong’ with them (which you have stated that you believe) or that they are under in influence of Satan (which apparently you also believe) from coming into the classroom and spreading that hatred. Just like people are prevented from spreading hatred against minorities or religions or people with disabilities.
I for one feel safer that I live in a State that shows respect for all people and I am sorry you do not feel the same. That you would compare LGBT people to Nazis says it all.
Good day to you Mr Payton
Ms. Marlow,
I didn’t compare the LGBT community to Nazis. I was comparing our state indoctrinating our school children with what the Nazis did in Germany.
We’re all sinners. But we don’t go into the classroom and champion or promote the sins of drunkeness, drug abuse, robbery, lying or any other sin that has negative consequences for the individual and society.
Nor is it “spreading hatred” when opposing and disagreeing with someone’s lifestyle choice or the promotion of it. As I said, I don’t hate LGBT individuals or anyone else. I love them, but hate the sin their committing that’s both detrimental to themselves and others, and society as a whole.
But, if they want to choose that behavior, that’s their business. Don’t make it the business of everyone else and certainly not our school children.
There should have at least been an opt out for parents who find such topics objectional to be teaching THEIR children.
Allen Payton
Publisher
I’m afraid it is spreading hatred Mr. Payton. You can try to cover it in the cloak of religion, but underneath it is what it is. Not all Americans believe what you do. Not All Christians even believe what you do. The Bible says many things and if you took them all literally, even you would most likely have to be stoned to death.
Allen,
I do appreciate that you wanted to publish the voting record of our representatives; I am simply disappointed at the way you chose to present it.
In addition, I think you have misunderstood the point of the law, which “adds sexual orientation and religion to the list of characteristics that shall not be reflected adversely in adopted instructional materials.” This doesn’t mean that no LGBT person can be criticized at all…what it means is that schools are prohibited from using instructional materials that criticize LGBTs *for* their sexual orientation. There’s a big distinction there.
As for what the Bible says, it has no place in our public schools. Separation of church & state, you know. As an educated person, I am sure you are aware of this part of our constitution. Additionally, if we were to take everything in the Bible at face value, we’d still have women being owned by men as property, and adulterers being stoned to death. I respect your right to your religious beliefs, but I do not respect it when you attempt to pass them off as a factual, objective article. I do think that this would have been more appropriately classified as an editorial.
It is _not_ just the LGBT community that wants to see equality and respect for ALL United States citizens. I am a heterosexual wife and mother, and I firmly believe that LGBTs should have all the rights and responsibilities that any other adult citizen has – including the right to marry, and adopt children. Certainly they should have the right to be free of hateful rhetoric in our public institutions, such as schools and government organizations.
Jennifer McVicker
Community Organizer
Take Back Antioch
Jennifer,
Our country is based on the beliefs in the Bible. Our laws are based on the Mosaic Law, known as the 10 Commandments.
You have it backward. It’s separation of state from church. The Bill of Rights are limits on government, as we have the “freedom of religion” and “speech” even in the classroom. So a student or a teacher who wants to express their beliefs is Constitutionally allowed to do so.
As for your Old Testament (or Covenant between God and humans) examples of punishments for certain things or ownership of women by men, those were historical facts, and we’re under grace, now with the New Covenant. We don’t stone people to death for their sins, but society has chosen to do kill (not murder as is the word in the 10 Commandments) for certain sins that are also capital crimes under the auspices of the 5th Amendment which says you can’t have your life, liberty or property taken without due process of law.
It’s not a matter of equality. People aren’t born homosexual, bisexual or transexual, like being born black, Hispanic, or of Jewish heritage. They choose to follow that lifestyle. Just like the alcoholic who must resist the sin of drunkenness, so must one who as the sinful, sexual desires for someone of the same gender resist what their tempted by.
But as I’ve said, we all are sinners and all can be forgiven.
In America we get to have our beliefs influence how we are governed. In this instance those that govern us made a decision against what most people in California believe.
Stating you believe homosexuality is a sin is not hateful rhetoric. You can put whatever spin on it you want. You can’t deny someone their right to believe something that’s been believed for thousands of years and will continue to believe. You can disagree, as I’m disagreeing with you and those who passed this law.
We’ll just have to agree to disagree on this one.
Allen Payton
Publisher
Indeed, we will definitely disagree on this.
Sexual orientation IS something that people are born with, the same way their hair color or race is something that they are born with.
And while everyone is free to believe whatever they want, everyone is NOT free to speak their beliefs at any time. There are laws against hate crimes. A teacher who promotes an atmosphere of intolerance by saying that homosexuality is wrong – no matter what they personally believe – should be fired. There is no difference between promoting intolerance against sexual orientation and promoting intolerance against a race or a religion. Even if you believe that sexual orientation is a choice, you must also acknowledge that religion is a choice. If a Muslim teacher were working at an elementary school, you’d expect that teacher to be fired if they started saying that George Washington was an infidel and sinner in the eyes of Allah because he was a Christian. Why? Because it is completely inappropriate in a public school setting.
Jennifer McVicker
Community Organizer
Take Back Antioch
Jennifer,
Until there is empirical evidence of a “gay” gene being discovered, it is not proven people are born homosexual, bisexual and certainly not transsexual.
So a teacher should be fired for sharing their own personal beliefs? You don’t understand the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution.
The Muslim teacher has a right to say that’s what they believe about George Washington. It goes against what most Americans believe. It could even be taught in textbooks that Muslims believe it.
It appears you want the teachers to be politically correct and to not allow discussion of differing ideas, however anathema to us. That’s not education.
I’ll defend you’re right to believe what you want and say it, short of shouting “fire” in a crowded building, as it negatively impacts the rights of others.
And yes, there is a difference. Being homosexual and bisexual is a sin and detrimental behavior for both the individual and society. Being black, Jewish or any other race or ethnicity is not.
Allen Payton
Publisher
Just like when the church locked up Galileo for stating that the Earth was round, people like Allen here will continue in their ignorance until the proof is so overwhelming that they are forced to accept reality. Science is already proving that people are born gay, and the scientific proof will continue to mount over time.
Since we’re bringing up the Nazis….they believed that Jews were detrimental to society and sought to eliminate them completely. By marginalizing and condemning LGBTs, you are trying to eliminate them from society — not physically, of course, but politically and socially.
Definition: “Hate crime” generally refers to criminal acts that are seen to have been motivated by bias against a person because of his or her perceived membership in a certain social group, usually defined by racial group, religion, sexual orientation, disability, class, ethnicity, nationality, age, gender, gender identity, social status or political affiliation. Incidents may involve physical assault, damage to property, **bullying**, **harassment**, **verbal abuse** or **insults**, or offensive graffiti or **letters** (hate mail).
A teacher who calls LGBTs sinners and “detrimental to society” is effectively condoning if not outright encouraging bullying and harassment. It is my opinion that a teacher who enables bullying and harassment in this way should be fired. Thankfully our legal representatives agree with me.
Jennifer McVicker
Community Organizer
Take Back Antioch
Jen,
So now you’re saying I’m inciting or committing a hate crime?
Shades of George Orwell.
Let’s go round up all those who share my beliefs and speak out on them, including all the Christian clergy who speak out against the sin of homosexuality and throw them in jail and charge them with a hate crime, because that’s where your thinking leads.
You are completely wrong.
Trying to prevent the forced teaching of an unacceptable, sinful lifestyle to all California students, even as young as age 5, is not “trying to eliminate them [LGBT’s] from society…politically or socially.” I merely shared what the vote was and the impact of that vote by our elected representatives and oppose the law’s implementation.
It’s when a person acts out on their beliefs against someone else and harms that other person or their property have they committed a hate crime.
The fact that we’ve even created such a thing as a “hate crime” is ridiculous, because it’s based on a thought. Now certain classes of people are more protected than others? A person who commits a crime against me, a white, straight male gets less punishment than if they commit that same crime against someone else? That’s not equal justice.
The comparison to Nazis is what our state government is doing in forcing our school children to be indoctrinated into something their parents don’t believe and with which they vehemently disagree.
It’s sad that in order to support your position, you have to resort to labeling what I’ve written as inciting a “hate crime” instead of arguing your point.
I’m not inciting anyone to violence nor would a teacher be condoning the bullying or harassment of a student by speaking his or her mind and sharing their beliefs that homosexuality is a sin and a choice.
And since we’re on the subject of bullying, if the state government really cared about it, this isn’t the way to do it, since the vast majority of bullying incidents has nothing to do with sexuality. Schools should discipline any student who bullies another student regardless of why it’s done.
So when a teacher says smoking or abusing alcohol or drugs is bad, they’re inciting students to harass and bully their fellow students who smoke, do drugs or participate in underage drinking? Of course not. It’s the same thing.
A teacher does have a First Amendment Constitutional right to share their beliefs in the classroom.
Your views are frightening. Where does your censorship and silencing of those with whom you disagree end? It’s a slippery slope, my friend.
When the parents who don’t agree with this indoctrination pull their students out of class for either that week or permanently, and for when they celebrate “Harvey Milk Day” and the ADA money is reduced to the school districts, the local school boards will wake up and pressure the legislature to reverse this decision.
Then again, it’s going to be a referendum – the process has already begun – and I believe the people will vote and remove this law from the books.
Allen Payton
Publisher
The subtitle of your article states “can’t say anything bad about lesbians, gays, bisexuals, or transgendered in the classroom” and your article continues in the vein that leads me to believe that you feel that such people should be talked badly about to our children.
Please explain to me why teachers should be allowed to talk badly about these people. You state that 30% of all students are drooping out and 50% of African Americans, but you have neglected to mention the number of LGBT or perceived LGBT children that are bullied and drop out or even commit suicide. This article is a disgrace and should be removed immediately.
Ms. Marlow,
Thank you for reading and commenting.
Please see my response to Jen McVicker’s comments.
As for the issue of bullying, this bill has nothing to do with that. Bullying of any student by another is wrong, for whatever reason and must be opposed and dealt with. But, passing a bill to require the indoctrination of our students about a controversial subject is not the solution.
The article contains the facts of what our legislature and Governor just did by voting for and signing this bill into law. It WILL result in indoctrination of our students.
If teachers and students can’t speak their mind in the classroom on controversial subjects, such as homosexuality, bisexuality and transexuality, then that’s not education, it’s indoctrination, like the Nazis did in Germany and other totalitarian regimes, which is happening today in other parts of the world. People who speak out against those in power are thrown in jail.
The new law is in direct violation of the First Amendment right of freedom of expression. I expect a referendum or a lawsuit to have this law thrown out as biased.
Now you’re wanting to censor me and prevent me from expressing my views by removing the article, because you disagree with it. That’s unfortunate and sad.
Allen Payton
Publisher
Wow, I completely disagree here (big surprise). You say:
“If teachers and students can’t speak their mind in the classroom on controversial subjects, such as homosexuality, bisexuality and transexuality, then that’s not education, it’s indoctrination, like the Nazis did in Germany and other totalitarian regimes, which is happening today in other parts of the world. People who speak out against those in power are thrown in jail.”
What if there was a teacher who thought that all Mexicans were lazy, or all black people were criminals? Or a teacher who thought that Mormons smelled bad, or that autistic kids should be drowned at birth? Should they be able to say such a thing in the classroom? How is that different from what you are suggesting – that teachers should be allowed to say that a homosexual is “wrong…from a moral and health standpoint”? It may very well be the teacher’s opinion, but such an opinion has no place in a public school, and should under no circumstances be spoken by someone who is paid with public tax dollars to educate a captive audience.
Jennifer McVicker
Community Organizer
Take Back Antioch
The point is that LGBT people should not be treated as a controversial subject anymore because to do so spreads hatred toward a group of people. I know you believe that LGBT people have something wrong with them. Unbiased studies thankfully show that this is a dwindling point of view. Bringing up Prop 8 evidence to your view is very outdated. It has been 3.5 years since then.
I did not want you to remove this article because I disagree with your view but because it perpetuates hatred (hatred is what it is whether you choose to acknowledge it or not) toward a group of people. Your replies only strengthen that.
Ms. Marlow,
Homosexuality and the acceptance of that lifestyle by society will always be controversial because anyone who believes in the Bible knows it’s a sin and is not something that should either be acceptable or promoted.
No hatred was involved in the article. It stated facts about what is taught in the Bible and what our lawmakers are requiring to be taught in school.
God hates no one. He hates sin. We’re to love the sinner and hate the sin.
You’re mixing up having standards and following them with hatred. They’re not the same.
Do you love your children, if you have any? Do you love all their behavior and actions? I doubt it. Did you punish them when they misbehaved? Most likely.
But would you call that spreading hatred toward your children? Of course not.
The same goes here.
Allen Payton
Publisher
I would not punish my child for something they had no control over or for falling in love with someone. I have no doubt that you do not believe a person can be born gay but I have seen and heard countless stories that show that people can indeed be born gay.
Do you have any experiences with the LGBT community? Have you taken the time to talk to LGBT people? If not, then might I suggest you do so. It might give you a better awareness of the world you live in and not just the small corner of it you reside in now.
Ms. Marlow,
But they do have control over it. While we’re all born into sin and with a sinful nature – you don’t have to teach a child to be bad, you have to teach them to be good – no one is born homosexual, bisexual and certainly not transsexual. There’s no empirical evidence to demonstrate that. No “gay” gene has ever been discovered nor will it be.
Yes, I have experience with individuals in the LGBT community, both through work and politics, as well as my church. I’ve been working with a gay man on a redistricting project for the past five months, as we did 20 years ago. We’ve had discussions on this issue. Some gays believe they’re born that way. I’ve also witnessed men who have left the gay lifestyle. One became much more masculine over the summer he spent with our college group at church, as he got away from the lifestyle. Another friend is now straight, married and has children. One gay man used to work for me, when I owned the Antioch Press. Some of my advertisers were gay. They know my views and know I don’t hate them. They still advertised because they liked the paper and knew it was effective for them.
Don’t try to paint me to be some uneducated, sheltered, backwoods person, because I choose to follow the Bible and believe what it says. I’ve lived all over California and once in Oregon. I’ve traveled all over the country and a little bit internationally. I read multiple news sources every day.
I stand by my beliefs.
Allen Payton
Publisher
Yes Allen,
I am sure you know some ex-gay people and I must say that my heart goes out to them. They were told by people like you that they are sinners and that the feelings that are natural to them are wrong. Yes, they may try to change to be accepted into a society that refuses to love them for who they really are, or to be accepted by their families that they feel would otherwise abandon them.
However, professional associations such as the American Medical Association, the American Psychiatric Association, the American Psychological Association, the American Counseling Association all state that trying to change a person’s sexual orientation is harmful and detrimental.
Many of these ex-gays that people such as you so love to talk about come back to reality years later and realize that a portion of their lives have been stolen from them. The majority of LGBT people see through what you are trying to do and know that the people who are worth knowing are the ones who love them unconditionally and do not try to change them.
You are passing your opinion as fact without any evidence besides what the Bible says. So lets go look at those verses…. Well the ones in Leviticus can be discarded right away as we are no longer subject to the old laws since Jesus came and abolished that law with his death. We can eat shellfish, we can eat pork, etc etc. You can’t take 2 verses as fact and discard the rest.
Next… Sodom and Gomorrah, these people wanted to gang rape the Angel men that arrived to visit Lot. These cities were also a promiscuous destructive society. I know the LGBT community DOES NOT condone gang rape. It is evident that a promiscuous lifestyle is destructive to any person be they gay or straight. But this has no bearing for LGBT people in committed monogamous relationships.
Next… the passage in Romans written by Paul the Apostle (who also wrote that women must not speak in church and that divorced people that remarry are adulterers)… this was written during a time where the Romans had filled the known world with their temples that were essentially whore houses and orgy dens. Once again sexual promiscuity damaging peoples lives. Science is proving that LGBT people are born with their sexual orientation, just like science proved that the Earth is round despite the churches belief otherwise and therefore what is ‘natural’ is up for debate at this time.
Next …1 Corinthians and 1 Timothy talk about uncertain Greek words that men have decided to translate as homosexual/male prostitutes etc, it varies per translation. Well, you can’t just decide what words mean without evidence I’m afraid. Remember, the Bible was not written in English and though we can do our best to translate these ancient languages, some of the meanings have been lost over time.
On a different note, you cannot publish articles of this nature and state that your paper is of, by and for the people of Antioch. The only people this article is of, by and for is you and people who think like you do. It is definitely not for the Antioch that I am a part of.
Also, you wrote in another reply that you do not think that people are hurt by your words. It is words like yours that have caused hurt to many LGBT people. Your words and actions do hurt and affect others. The fact that you do not acknowledge this further proves that you have NO IDEA what LGBT people go through on a daily basis. LGBT people who are surrounded by hatred and ignorant people who think that their right to religious freedom gives them the authority to spread hatred.
Believe what you want to believe Mr Payton. These replies are for the LGBT people out there that are struggling in a world that denies them their rights, that denies their even existence. We exist. We matter. We deserve respect as much as the next person. We deserve our rights. And we will have our rights. God is love. Jesus said to love God and to love your neighbor. You can’t love your neighbor and hate who they are.
Ms. Marlow,
I’m responding to both of your recent posts.
Jesus didn’t come to abolish the law but to fulfill it. In Matthew 5:17-18 Jesus said “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.”
However, some things that are in the Old Testament are absolutes such as what is a sin – lying, coveting, murdering, homosexuality, etc. – while other things were practices that are no longer today, in how those sins are punished. If they’re not against our laws, then the punishment isn’t provided by the state.
LGBT people all have the ability to change their ways with God’s help and many have.
Until 1973 being homosexual was considered a mental disorder or mental illness by the American Psychological Association, until in “1970 Gay rights activists storm panels on homosexuality at the American Psychiatric Association (APA) annual convention in San Francisco” and the APA was pressured to reverse its position. That quote comes from the website created by the “LGBT Issues Committee of the Group for the Advancement of Psychiatry (GAP).” Some professionals still consider it a mental illness.
Even in a brochure on the APA website it states there’s no proof a person is born homosexual. It reads “What causes a person to have a particular sexual orientation? There is no consensus among scientists about the exact reasons that an individual develops a heterosexual, bisexual, gay, or lesbian orientation. Although much research has examined the possible genetic, hormonal, developmental, social, and cultural influences on sexual orientation, no findings have emerged that permit scientists to conclude that sexual orientation is determined by any particular factor or factors. Many think that nature and nurture both play complex roles; most people experience little or no sense of choice about their sexual orientation.” Here’s the link: http://www.apa.org/topics/sexuality/orientation.aspx#
So there’s no proof, scientific of otherwise.
Plus, just consider the body parts.
Sex was created for both recreation and procreation. You can’t have both of those with two men or two women together.
The propagation of our species can’t happen without one male and one female being involved.
It was the Catholic Church that was being politically correct at that time, disagreed with Galileo and imprisoned him. It wasn’t the Bible or the rest of Christianity.
It is you who are ignorant and the one who needs enlightenment to the truth that homosexuality is abnormal, unnatural and a sin. Now you have been made aware of that if you weren’t before.
Just like all humans, LGBT individuals simply need to “turn from the wicked ways” repent of their sin and seek God’s help to resist the temptation to continue to commit their sins. God has the power to change any of us if we’ll allow Him.
I encourage you and others reading this thread to check out this website I just found. It will help better explain things for you. http://americansfortruth.com/
We CAN love each other and hate another’s behavior. Again, I give the example of your children. You hate their disobedient behavior but still love them.
No one denies their existence.
Rights and being treated equally with regard to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness are one thing. Forcing others to accept and the government to promote something believed by many if not most to be sinful and abhorrent is another – and requiring the teaching of it to our school children against the will of their parents is wrong. And this new law which does that, goes too far.
Allen Payton
Publisher
Disgusting!!
Disabilities? WHAT??? This state is going down the toilet – every person is now a special class. Oh my goodness… First it was animals having more rights than people, now a persons sexual choice is a DISABILITY? So, that means that they will get parking tags for the handicapped spaces? Or what???
Sick of Cali,
Thank you for reading and commenting.
However, I believe you’re misunderstanding what the law is about. It’s not stating being homosexual, bisexual or transsexual is now a disability. It states that the “role and contributions to the economic, political, and social development of California and the United States” of anyone who fits those descriptions or anyone from any religion or anyone who has a disability shall be accurately portrayed in social science classes and instructional material. But it also states that those are “characteristics that shall not be reflected adversely.”
But what about someone who is handicapped due to their own drug addiction? Drug addicts are protected as disabled under the Americans with Disabilities Act.
So the teacher can teach his/her students about the wonderful art by Vincent Van Gogh, but can’t mention he went a little mad and cut off his own ear? Having mental illness is a disability.
What about a priest who has been convicted of molesting children? Is that not allowed to be mentioned, if that same priest did something positive for society?
That’s the bigger problem I have with the legislation. It’s one thing to mention the role and contributions of an individual, but if you can only say good things about them, then we’re not fully educating our students.
Allen Payton
Publisher
Wow. Just, wow.
You do have a degree in Journalism? Or was that Puritan Theology?
Your stance is reprehensible. How dare you use a public paper for your own personal bully pulpit!
QUOTE:
“Yes there IS something wrong with being homosexual, bisexual and/or transsexual. Both from a moral and health standpoint.
But, now that can’t be discussed objectively in California classrooms. Yet, the new law says LGBT individuals “…shall be accurately portrayed in social science instruction and instructional materials adopted by local governing boards.” Well how can that be if the law also states “Adds sexual orientation and religion to the list of characteristics that shall not be reflected adversely in adopted instructional materials…?” How do you portray someone accurately if you can only say good things about them or what they’ve done?
Those who believe the Bible know that it states clearly that homosexuality is an abomination to God.
The majority of Californians oppose homosexual marriage. (I try not to use the term “gay” because they took what used to mean happy and twisted it. Besides I don’t believe they’re truly happy. But that’s a discussion for another time). Yet the Democrats in the legislature, including our representatives, and Gov. Brown want to force our students to accept their lifestyle – against the beliefs and desires of their parents, while using their tax dollars to do it.”
Say it to this bisexual’s FACE, YOU PIOUS ZEALOTROUS BULLY!!!
Everyone knows the Mormons bought and paid for Prop 8.
You know what? I don’t know why I waste my time on you.
Just like every other generation, it seems like we will have to wait for the old generation to die out before any progress is made. I suppose your grandparents thought black and white folks marrying was “an abomination before god” and “counter to the natural order” and “will destroy the family as we know it”. Yeah, right.
Why are you in charge at this paper? You’re flaunting the public interest in having a safe, friendly place to live. Way to make a name for your town.
Bigotry Needs to Go,
Thank you for reading and responding.
First, this is not a “public newspaper”. It is a privately-owned news site as is my newspaper, as is almost all media in America.
The only publicly owned media in America that I’m aware of is PBS.
I’m “in charge” because I started and own both this site and the newspaper, and put my money and time into it, just as you are or anyone else is free to do in America.
I don’t want anyone to feel or be unsafe, here in Antioch or anywhere else. But I’m not the one making veiled threats here. It appears you want to make me feel unsafe for publishing an article that you don’t like. Publishing an article on a vote on a bill by our legislators and signed into law by our governor does not incite anyone to harm anyone else.
The public does have an interest in knowing and a right to know what their elected representatives are doing and the results and impact of their votes. That’s part of the job of the news media – to inform the public and hold our representatives accountable. I’m sure you’d want to know if they passed legislation you didn’t like.
Are you saying articles you disagree with shouldn’t be published? That would be going against the First Amendment of the U.S. Constitution which guarantees both the freedom of the press and speech, as well as religion. Of course we don’t have time to teach that in school, nor is it a requirement to graduate from high school in California, but we have to teach our kids all kinds of other politically correct stuff. You want to censor me and my article because you don’t like it, while I’m allowing your comments to be published, even though I disagree with them.
I understand you disagree with what I’ve written and don’t like it and that makes you angry. You don’t have to read my news website or my newspaper, but glad that you do and hope you find it informative about Antioch, in spite of your attitude toward this article. But, you’re problem really isn’t with me. It’s with what I believe and with God’s Word and His laws, and standards for living and for society. Just know I love you, God loves you and He has a wonderful plan for your life, and being bisexual is not part of it.
As for Proposition 8, regardless of who funded the Yes on 8 campaign, what matters is the majority of voters agreed that marriage should be between a man and a woman.
Using the term bigotry is wrong. You’re attempting to equate being homosexual, bisexual or transexual to being black or Jewish, or some other race or ethnicity. They’re born that way. You weren’t. Opposing sinful behavior and lifestyle and the LGBT agenda which promotes it, is not bigotry it’s standing up for righteousness.
Thank you again for reading and responding.
Allen Payton
Publisher
Veiled threat? Really?
Please quote my “veiled threat”.
You can say whatever you want, and people can call you out on your BS. That’s how I see it.
Using the term BIGOTRY is entirely appropriate. Just because you would rather cling to religion rather than accept science as the flip side of the same coin – the coin of knowledge and truth seeking; that is not my problem, it is YOUR willful ignorance.
QUOTE:
“You’re attempting to equate being homosexual, bisexual or transexual to being black or Jewish, or some other race or ethnicity. They’re born that way.”
MEMO TO EDITORIALIST: um, yes they were born that way. Get a life.
What God has planned for me is NONE of your business, and your very stating that implies to me that you are, in fact, LDS yourself. Why don’t you just publish “A Proclamation on the Family” and call it objective journalism? Because in good conscience, you CAN’T. You are not being an objective journalist, you are being A BIGOTED EDITORIALIST.
Since you’re clinging to Old Testament law so much, tell me: ever eaten shellfish? pork? Had a menstruating wife prepare your dinner? Either the whole law sticks, or it doesn’t. Don’t be a hypocrite as well.
Mr. Payton wrote:
“While I’m not “homophobic” as I don’t fear homosexuals, nor do I hate them or anyone else, I do not agree with promoting their choice of lifestyles to our children or condoning their behavior through law.”
Since it is obvious that you were previously unaware, Mr. Payton, I am happy to inform you that being homosexual is not a choice.
If you’d like more information on what the Bible says on the subject, I’d be happy to school you in this area as well.
Edgar,
Feel free to share with me, either privately through my email at info@antiochherald.com or publicly, here.
Thank you for reading and responding.
Allen Payton
Publisher
Dear Mr. Payton,
I understand that it can be very hard to understand what it means to be gay. It is something very different from your reality. I totally believe that you do not intend to be hurtful and that you desire to be a good christian. But as you can see from these comments clearly people are hurt by your article, people lash out in anger when they are hurt. That may not have been your intention but that is what happened. I’m a christian too, so I know it must pain your heart to have hurt others.
So what can you do? If you desire to “love the sinner” what does that mean? How can you do that? I’m am sure that the LGBT community is not feeling your love and I’m sure as a christian your first focus is to love like God loves.
So if your first approach was not effective in communicating your’s and God’s love, then might I suggest another approach? One of my pastors once said “without relationships, there is no influence” This is consistent with Jesus’s approach he loved, respected, listened to, ate with, and died for humanity “while we were yet sinners” He built relationships, I suggest you build relationships too. Put aside anything that smacks of “us against them” learn what it means to be gay or trans from people who are gay or trans. Strive to understand their reality. Reach out in humility and friendship, God would do (and has done) no less.
We ARE our brother’s keepers.
To help in your reaching out, I suggest delving into the resources the gay christian network, http://www.gaychristian.net
Also check out their youtube channel for gay christian answers. I’m sure others can suggest additional resources for you.
May Christ’s love shine through you,
Tami
Tami,
Thank you for reading and responding.
However, I disagree that people are “lashing out” in anger because they’re hurt.
They’re doing so because they disagree with what I wrote.
Did the Pharisees lash out in anger at Jesus and want him killed because he hurt them? No.
Because he challenged their authority and power and way of life.
Sometimes standing up for what you believe makes other people angry and in that anger they lash out and say and do hurtful things.
My article did not.
I’ll check out the website. But, you can’t be a committed Christian and continue in homosexual or any other sinful behavior.
Plus, God wouldn’t create someone a certain way than claim they’re an abomination to him.
God hates all of our sin – disobedience to his laws. But good thing He loves us sinners and made a way for us to be reconciled to Him through Christ.
The article wasn’t about communicating God’s love. It was about standing up for righteousness.
God is both a God of love and justice.
Allen Payton
Publisher
And here is where you’re missing the WHOLE POINT.
QUOTE:
“Plus, God wouldn’t create someone a certain way than claim they’re an abomination to him.”
God *did* create them that way, it is you who have not accepted God’s natural laws, by substituting it with laws written by men. Which is exactly what all scriptures are:
the Divine being recorded by **imperfect, fallible, humans**.
It takes greater discernment than you are evincing to separate the truth from the dogma. You seem willing to protect your dogma from everything, even a higher truth.
I don’t suppose you have _ever_ considered that their existence could be a lesson in unconditional, Christ-like love to overly close-minded and excessively pious humans?
God doesn’t make mistakes.
Bigotry Needs to Go
Yes, you’re correct. God doesn’t make mistakes. People do and sometimes they’re called sin, when those mistakes are against God’s laws.
Now that you’re aware you’re breaking God’s laws and are sinning against him, yourself and anyone with whom you’re participating in homosexual activity, you’re responsible for that knowledge and have the ability to repent from it. Just ask God and He’ll forgive you and help you resist the temptation of the sin of sex with your same gender. But you must be willing.
As for what I perceived as a veiled threat, you stated “say it to my…face.” Sure sounded like one to me. What would you do if I did?
As for science on the issue, please see my earlier post to Ms. Marlow regarding the brochure by the American Psychological Association – http://www.apa.org/topics/sexuality/orientation.aspx# which clearly states there is no proof that one is born homosexual.
Allen Payton
Publisher
Galileo and Da Vinci were both gay, by the way.
The Church killed Da Vinci’s partner in front of him.
And, not that it’s ANY of your business, but I’ve been celibate for 6 years, so which of God’s so-called laws am I breaking? Believe me, I would LOVE to once again have the experience of the meshing of my soul with another whom I dearly love, but I guess it isn’t in the cards, currently.
I also see that you could not illustrate any sort of “implied threat” in my words.
Humanity’s mistake is believing that they can interpret God’s Laws correctly. We are limited to what our senses can tell us, which mean we cannot perceive all of existence, nor all aspects of the Divine.
He who has ears, let him hear.
I don’t think you’re listening, Mr. Payton.
Then, that’s great, Bigorty Needs to Go.
If you’re not acting on your sinful desires, then you’re not sinning.
God can still make you into the creation He designed you to be and will be fulfilling for you, if you’ll allow Him.
Remember Christ said He came to give us abundant life.
I pray you will one day experience that.
By the way, when you say “the Church” you’re referring to the Catholic church. That doesn’t necessarily equate with Biblical Christianity.
And I am listening. My ears and eyes are open to you. Feel free to email me directly at info@antiochherald.com or call me at 457-5324 any time.
Allen Payton
Publisher
Dear Mr. Payton,
Based on your response I believe that the very first thing you should watch is a You Tube video called “Can you be gay and christian?” http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUmxDbSXvPU
Follow that with “What makes people gay?” http://www.youtube.com/user/GayChristianNetwork#p/c/DA1EBE6901CF9CE4/1/jnxYQOyLvlY
I do believe that the bible is the infallible word of God. That “All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,” 2 Timothy 3:16
I also believe that God is very big and not a one diminutional God. He chose not to write the bible with his own hand but through many people, times, cultures and languages. Because of that I feel it is IMPERATIVE to read the bible within the context and culture of the times. God shows himself through the prospectives of people very different then us. In order to see him clearly we must set aside our prospective and our realities to see from the prospective of others.
“The article wasn’t about communicating God’s love. It was about standing up for righteousness.”
One comment I would like to make is, the only way to stand for righteousness IS to love.
34Hearing that Jesus had silenced the Sadducees, the Pharisees got together. 35One of them, an expert in the law, tested him with this question: 36“Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”
37Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’b 38This is the first and greatest commandment. 39And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’c 40All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.” (Matthew)
Thank-you for being willing to reach out in brotherly love to all of God’s children.
-Tami
Tami,
I encourage you to check out this website – http://americansfortruth.com/ It will help you better understand the issue of Christianity and homosexuality.
I agree. I love the homosexuals, bisexuals and transsexuals and because I do I will stand for the righteousness that they’re committing sins that are spiritually, physically, mentally and emotionally harmful to themselves and society.
Just as you love your children but don’t want them to be disobedient and provide them guidance and correction when they misbehave, which is what God does with all of us.
But until they know that truth, they won’t know there is a different, better way to live, as God has provided and wants for us.
Love the sinner hate the sin, don’t encourage them in their sin, which it appears you’re attempting to do. Just because our culture might have changed it doesn’t mean God’s absolutes have. A sin is still a sin. Perhaps certain sins are no longer illegal and therefor punishable by the state. Just because society says something is OK, doesn’t mean it is to God.
Allen Payton
Publisher
Dear Mr. Payton,
“Love the sinner hate the sin, don’t encourage them in their sin, which it appears you’re attempting to do.”
I don’t believe I have even broached the subject of intimate same sex relations. My point is that some people are gay, that is their reality, and we need to treat all people with Christlike love.
I browsed through the site you linked and read serveral articals. I found the tone to be angry, compative, and sarcastic I had a hard time reading as the articles were neather loving nor unbiased.
“As for science on the issue, please see my earlier post to Ms. Marlow regarding the brochure by the American Psychological Association – http://www.apa.org/topics/sexuality/orientation.aspx# which clearly states there is no proof that one is born homosexual.”
“There is no consensus among scientists about the exact reasons that an individual develops a heterosexual, bisexual, gay, or lesbian orientation. Although much research has examined the possible genetic, hormonal, developmental, social, and cultural influences on sexual orientation, no findings have emerged that permit scientists to conclude that sexual orientation is determined by any particular factor or factors. Many think that nature and nurture both play complex roles; most people experience little or no sense of choice about their sexual orientation.” APA
This does not state that people are not born gay, it only states that how particular aspects interrelate to cause oriantaion are not yet know.
Orientation cannot be changed. Soooooo many people have spent years of their lives in reparative therapy trying to “pray the gay away” To no avail. From the Ex-gay ministries you will find a very small handful of people who have gone on to marry opposite gender partners. And apparently you know some. In nearly every case the individuals will admit that they are bisexuals and still are attracted to the same gender. So no change in orientation they are just staying on the “straight” side of things. On the other hand Ex-gay ministries have produced some really terrible results, countless people have fallen into depression, suicide, or lost their faith in God because of their fruitless attempts to change who they are attracted to. All major medical and psychological organizations say that reparative therapies are not only ineffective but can cause significant harm to the participants. Exodus a major Ex-gay ministry recently stated on a documentary on the OWN network that they no longer say they can cure being gay however their website still does.
Form the same article you quoted:
“All major national mental health organizations have officially expressed concerns about therapies promoted to modify sexual orientation. To date, there has been no scientifically adequate research to show that therapy aimed at changing sexual orientation (sometimes called reparative or conversion therapy) is safe or effective. Furthermore, it seems likely that the promotion of change therapies reinforces stereotypes and contributes to a negative climate for lesbian, gay, and bisexual persons. This appears to be especially likely for lesbian, gay, and bisexual individuals who grow up in more conservative religious settings.”
I hope we can all put down our arms and come together in Christ.
-Tami
Thank you Tami.
I truly appreciate what you have said here. I am one of those people who love God but have withdrawn from the church side of Christianity because of exactly what is being discussed here, people who say they “love the sinner, hate the sin” but are in reality, they are judgmental people who will not accept who I am and will not even try to understand.
It is wonderful to know that there are Christians like you out there. I read your words and hear their kindness and sincerity. I see Jesus in your words and they mean a lot to me. I wanted you to know that.
Thank you.
Lora-Lee,
You have chosen to pull away from Christianity because you want the “church” and other Christians to accept you and you’re sinful behavior and lifestyle.
You call it being “judgemental.” Well, yes. We ARE to judge sin and call it for what it is. People have the verse “judge not lest ye be judged” wrong. The correct way to read it is don’t judge with a measure you’re not willing to be judged by.
I do love you and I don’t even know you. God loves you but hates your sin. You should hate your own sin, too.
I will not encourage you to sin nor condone it. That’s not showing you love. That’s NOT the love of God or Jesus, who also expect obedience. You have confused acceptance of your behavior and lifestyle and kindness toward you with love.
While I will always be kind to you, I will also show you true love – the love for your whole person – spiritually, physically, mentally, emotionally and most important, eternally.
You are being deceived that you are born that way. Don’t allow Tami’s or other’s acceptance of your sinful behavior and lifestyle to confuse you. You may find it “kind” and accepting, but it’s not love.
You have the choice to repent from your sin, turn from your wicked ways, and become the new creation God wants you to become, which is to be more like Jesus Christ, the only perfect human to walk the face of the earth. While we can’t fully achieve that in our imperfect state as humans, we can grow to be more like Him, each day.
I pray you recognize your sin, turn from it and restore your fellowship with both God and fellow believers who will encourage you in the path of righteousness.
Allen Payton
Publisher
Tami,
It says there’s no proof people are born gay. That was my point.
You are wrong. Orientation CAN be changed and is has been changed and people do change.
While therapy may not change a homosexual, it doesn’t mean they can’t choose to change and with God’s help, they can and do.
I’ve seen it myself with one man while in college who came out of the homosexual lifestyle and know of another man I used to go to church with who is no longer homosexual, and is married with children.
Being attracted to the same sex is one thing. Acting on it is what is sinful. We are all tempted to sin, but we don’t have to act on the temptation. We must resist the temptation.
The “negative climate” exists because most people do not accept the sinful, abnormal and abhorrent behavior of homosexuals, bisexuals or transsexuals.
The brochure says nothing about the transforming power of God through a relationship with Christ does it? No. It’s written from a pure secular point of view.
You want to condone their sinful behavior and are being an enabler. If you truly loved them you wouldn’t encourage them in their sinful, destructive behavior.
It’s the same thing as saying to the drug abuser, “I love you, it’s OK. You can continue abusing drugs.” Somehow you are mistaking kindness and acceptance of someone’s behavior with love.
We should all be kind to each other, but we don’t have to accept, condone and certainly not promote another’s sinful and destructive behavior.
I won’t put down my arms – the sword of truth, the Bible, nor my breastplate of righteousness – in this battle for the hearts and minds of my fellow human beings. Why? Because I love them and don’t want to see them on the destructive path to Hell.
I’m amazed how you’ve allowed yourself to be deceived by the thinking of this world.
Allen Payton
Publisher
Sir,
I applaud your patience in the face of these ridiculous comments. It is clear who the real bullies are, and you are definitely no bully or hate-mongerer. I’m ashamed of these “commenters” for their lack of respect and their utter disdain and intolerance for your beliefs, which are no more hateful than their own. It is typical of ignorant and intolerant people to resort to name calling, hateful accusations, and false assumptions when faced with a well-thought-out, rational or logical response. These individuals, instead of growing, become mental midgets and will never win a single debate nor understand how they lost. Congratulations Mr. Payton, you’ve already won.
Wow, what a huge (mostly healthy) debate Allen Payton stirred up with his item about homosexuals and the new state law. I haven’t read the text of the law, but I don’t see anything in the summary that says individual homosexuals can’t be criticized for any action they take.
Think about our life’s experience and observations. Have you had in your family, gone to school with, worked with, or otherwise known males wired to be super-macho? Have you known persons wired to be gay?
It isn’t so much that he doesn’t have the right to believe what he wants to believe.
He can believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster for all I care.
The problem is, he’s presented his personal ideals and beliefs as objective journalism, which is something it’s not; by a long shot.